The purpose of this forum is to facilitate communication and mutual support and edification among those who strive toward gender justice in Churches of Christ. If you would like to join the forum, send an e-mail (including your first and last name) from your primary address to forum@gal328.org.
I just want to share that I have just finished reading Michelle Gonzalez's Sor Juana: Beauty and Justice in the Americas. (This was an assigned text for a class, but don't let that put you off.) I had not ever even heard of Sor Juana before, and it's just an amazing thing to discover a seventeenth-century woman theologian, one who reflected very profoundly on what it meant and felt like to be a woman theologian in the midst of unaccepting men. One of the things that most caught my attention is the vacillation in her writings between asserting her femaleness, and insisting that it doesn't matter. That seems to me to still be a crucial choice--do I emphasize I am a woman theologian, or do I simply say I'm a theologian, gender has nothing to do with it? Sor Juana seems to use whatever answer serves her apologetic purposes best (and boy did she have a lot of apology, in the classic sense, to do). Anyway, I just wanted to share my excitement about this "new discovery." If anyone more knowledgeable than I knows of a compilation of her writing or a good resource, I'd appreciate the help.
Jen
:::posted by Jennifer on 11/29/2004 09:26:56 PM
Indie:
When our oldest son was about 2 years old, he had the same problem with the names for his parents. We were attending the Brookline church at the time, and there was one Sunday morning when my wife Jan was serving communion. As she moved down the aisle, our son stood on the pew and held out both arms to her as he yelled, "Daddy!" I'm glad to know he's not the only one in that boat.
Katie:
I don't know if the contradiction in my comments was intentional or a slip. I wrote out a lot more on the subject, but then deleted it. I don't know that this is the right place to put all these things on the table. Basically, I think men carry their memories about inappropriate sex in one way (primarily guilt) and assume that women are the same way. But the few women who have felt free to open up with me and talk about what they carry have revealed something painful inside them that is very different. And as long as we only hear the guys' side of things -- even in a euphemistic way -- we will never be aware of the whole picture. So, while the pain felt by women surprises and in some sense overwhelms me, I am "glad" to know about it because it makes me aware of the bigger picture of how our actions can affect others. I think this is true of many things in our lives, and this is one reason why the voices of women must be heard in our churches.
In Christ,
Tim
:::posted by Tim on 11/26/2004 04:07:28 PM
I am thankful for my daughter. It amazes me that 19 months ago she couldn't even hold up her own head and now she runs, communicates, and has a mind of her own. A couple of weeks ago language seemed to suddenly click in her head and she has been saying so much. She has been saying "daddy" since she was nine months old and she has always insisted on calling me daddy too (with a twinkle in her eye, knowing, I'm sure, that it made me crazy). She has finally been saying mama and now I can't get her to stop, but I don't mind.
:::posted by Indie on 11/25/2004 02:00:19 AM
Hey friends, it is Thanksgiving weekend and I was wondering what you have to be thankful for... it can be those normal things we say we are thankful on Thanksgiving or I can ask what has changed in your life this past year in the gender justice area. We have moved to Abilene, Texas this fall...been through so much transitional stuff with our children, our housing, our friends, our marriage and financial stuff. I know that God is in charge and that is reassuring. This move has shown that over and over. It is good to be at Highland where we are seeing women participate more and more. Their voices are being used and heard. I love that it feels like a natural thing. I will continue to pray for growth...personally and as a community of believers. We can't stop the search for truth.
Have a great Thanksgiving...I hope you are spending it with people you love and that you tell them that while in each other's company.
grace, julie
:::posted by julie on 11/24/2004 01:17:02 PM
Katie and Irie,
I hope you don't mind me posting a couple links in regards to Irie. The first is to her web site for TTS Ministry, which has an excellent photo of her to put a face to the posts. http://www.irielynnesession.com/
The second is to an article, "Woman Thou Art Loosed" that Irie wrote that is on my web page "Where the Spirit Leads".
http://www.clarksons.org/articles/womanthouartloosed.html
Grace to you and peace.
:::posted by Wiley on 11/17/2004 07:08:08 PM
Tim, you have combined two responses to the stuff from Irie's class that are almost always mutually exclusive:
1. It hurts too much; and
2. I'd like to hear more.
It is a rare gift to hold these two in tension in your own heart. And it is a (second) rare gift that you have been gracious enough to share that tension with us here. Many thanks.
Anybody else reacting to Irie's material?
peace -- Katie
:::posted by Katie on 11/17/2004 04:06:16 PM
Mark:
I think I know where you're coming from in your understanding on 1 Tim 2. One of the things that started changing my thinking about how I read that text came many years ago as the result of a classroom assignment. We were asked to summarize the teachings on two topics in Timothy and Titus -- women, and false teachers. I was amazed by the numerous overlaps in the two in those books. Others saw different things than I did, but I'd be interested to see what you get out of such an exercise.
Irie and Katie:
Your comments are very powerful. I still hurt too much from what you said to give a coherent reaction to it all. It is hard -- impossible -- for me as a man to appreciate all that comes with this topic. But I am pretty certain that our churches' androcentric traditions are part of the problem rather than part of God's solution. I'd like to hear more on this.
Peace,
Tim
:::posted by Tim on 11/16/2004 08:04:14 PM
Hello all,
Thank you Katie for those kind words of support and for reminding me of the seriousness of the call to liberation for all women.
I have just one correction. The name of the outreach ministry at Preston Road church of Christ that helps women leave sexually oriented buisnesses is called "New Friends New Life." Tell the Secret Ministry is an Outreach Ministry founded by me to address the needs of marginalized, victimized, and otherwise, wounded women.
Once again Katie, thanks for your very articulate and thought provoking words. It was an honor to meet and have such a constructive dialogue with you.
Blessings,
:::posted by Irie on 11/12/2004 09:14:09 AM
Dear friends,
A couple of weeks ago I attended a portion of the Urban Ministry Conference at the Manhattan Church of Christ. (The UMC is an annual C of C event that travels from city to city each year. The host congregation organizes it and pays for it, I think.)
I mainly attended because of one special speaker on the roster: nope, not Ray Bakke, famed author of The Urban Christian, though he was terrific. The one I wanted to hear was Irie Sessions, a minister at the Preston Road Church of Christ in Dallas, Texas.
Irie led a session called “Ministering to Women at Risk” during which she shared about the “Tell the Secret” ministry, a program for liberating Dallas women from sex trades by the power of the gospel and the tangible help of wealthy Christians sharing their resources. A truly amazing ministry led by a truly amazing woman.
But here’s the best thing about her presentation: Irie did not pretend with her audience that any old church can have a powerful ministry to women at risk of sexual enslavement. She spent the majority of her time with us insisting that until the church works out the liberating implications of the gospel for all women and men at every level of society, we will fail in our attempts to rescue the “little ones” at the bottom of the heap. She said, “Your church is not ready for ministry to women at risk until you understand the intentions of God for women, men, and all of creation.”
Irie asked us to read together a statement of confession: “We, as a Christian androcentric community, have a tendency to organize ourselves in ways that favor maleness over femaleness by denying, minimizing, ignoring, invalidating, and disregarding the needs of women and their God-given birthright of equality in order to maintain power and control through hierarchal structures.” Or something like that – I scribbled it in shorthand. We mumbled our confession together and most of us, I suspect, breathed silent prayers for forgiveness in the quiet moments afterward. If a church does that, how are we so different from the society that has enslaved women in sex trades? It’s a matter of degree, of course, and the gospel has got to go all the way in its liberating reality for the women of our cities.
Irie had us spend a great deal of time in the Bible, including the story of Tamar’s rape and the circle of men (Amnon, Jonadab, David, the servant, and Absalom) who conspired in her abuse and ruin – some of them simply by counseling that she calm down and keep quiet. It was a painful recollection.
The audience participation in this session was remarkable, by women and men alike. I suspect they came, like me, hoping to hear inspirational anecdotes about women whose lives have been changed by a gutsy church willing to take the gospel to them. We got a little of that, and it was good. But the real power of the presentation was Irie’s courageous proclamation (preach it, sister!) of God’s intention that our churches must set all women free to be “fully human” (Martin Luther King’s language) by exercising the full range of their Spirit-given gifts. We must do it now, or our preaching outside the congregation will be robbed of its power and those who need good news most will go unrescued – all because we cannot get our house in order. The audience seemed to get it, even though it was a surprise to most to have these ideas linked together. Several people seemed to have little light bulbs flashing on over their heads as Irie’s preaching hit home.
I came away amazed and a little ashamed by Irie’s boldness. Amazed because she was such a powerful communicator of the simple truths many of us make complicated by our carefulness. Ashamed only by my own carefulness and complication! Thank you, Irie Sessions, for that fabulous hour in NYC and for the lifetime of thought, prayer, study, and ministry that made it possible! God is so good, and has been good to me through you.
One other note from the conference: plenary speaker Ray Bakke, who is not a C of C guy, made it a point to say that women must be included in urban ministry, not as adjuncts to the men but often as the only people who can get certain jobs done, speak the right words to certain people, and further God’s kingdom-purposes in certain situations. He sees a whole world at risk in the world’s cities, and cannot understand why anyone would deny half of God’s people the opportunity to work, serve, give, preach, minister, pray, heal, lead, or anything else that would reduce that risk.
Looking for a speaker for your next church retreat? (Not just the women’s retreat, please.) Need a preacher to fill in for your vacationing one? Consider Irie Sessions. You won’t be disappointed.
peace – Katie
:::posted by Katie on 11/11/2004 11:17:36 AM
Katie and Ken, thanks for the thoughtful responses to my questions. It never occurred to me that the prohibition in 1 Tim. 2: 12 might be related to the ill-advised behavior of young widows alluded to in 1 Tim. 5. And I'm not sure I see the connection yet, but I will just need to get a copy of the upcoming issue of Leaven. I've been wanting to subscribe to that, anyway.
Mark
:::posted by Mark on 11/11/2004 01:38:01 AM
I sent Mark's questions to Dr. Ken Cukrowski, NT prof at ACU, because he's something of an expert on Luke-Acts and Luke's way of describing converts to "the way". Here's Ken's reply:
"As Paul enters into Macedonia, mention of females increases, which is not surprising. Macedonia had a tradition of women serving in the public eye. See Ben Witherington, Women in the Earliest Churches, 12-13 for a superb summary. For example, women serve as politarchs (cf. politarchs in 17:6), which means that the prominence could have been political--or social, financial, educational--in nature. So, in the narrative of Acts, Luke shows women at the river in Philippi, Lydia, a girl with a Pythian spirit. As a seller of purple, Lydia has some social stature. In Thessalonica, we encounter a great multitude of "leading women" (lit. "first women"). In Berea, Luke mentions "prominent women" ("prominent" in the sense of "having high standing, noble") in 17:12, which incidentally codex Bezae (D) rearranges so that the men are mentioned first and the adjective "prominent" goes with the men and not the women (!). For other changes regarding women that D makes, see Acts 17:4, 34; 18:26 (i.e., reversing the order of Priscilla and Aquila).
"In Philippians, Paul describes two women, Euodia and Syntyche, as "co-workers" who 'struggled together with me in the gospel" (4:3). One wonders whether there was diversity in early Christianity in terms of women's roles; that is, as first century churches worked through the implications of the gospel, Christianity was more egalitarian in contexts like Macedonia, and more restrictive in others. What would that diversity imply for today?
"In terms of the mention of prominent Christians, Luke mentions a number of well-placed believers, likely in response to the charge that Christianity attracts the dregs of society; that is, Luke's references to prominent Christians function apologetically to defend Christianity against popular slanders. To name a few, remember the "Secretary of the Treasury" in Acts 8, the senator and current "governor" of Cyprus in Acts 13, and the "Supreme Court Justice" in Acts 17:34.
"As for Paul's statement in 1 Timothy 2:12, I think that Paul's comments in 1 Timothy 2 address the misbehavior of the young widows described in 1 Timothy 5. For a lengthier explanation, see my forthcoming article "Women and Wealth in 1 Timothy" in Leaven."
Thanks, Ken, for a helpfully detailed and comprehensive reply.
Ken's question above, "What would that diversity imply for today?", has at least two answers I can think of. (1) Variations concerning the roles of contemporary women and men from congregation to congregation should be expected and applauded as an appropriate repetition of the early church's diversity on this matter. (2) Diversity in the early church represents the variation in maturity of those congregations as they came to terms with the shockingly egalitarian kingdom of God.
Guess which one I'm voting for? (Not that my vote counts for much lately... sigh... It's hard to be liberal these days.)
peace -- Katie
:::posted by Katie on 11/09/2004 03:00:10 PM
In the Bible class I attended this morning, the text we studied was Acts 17:1-15. Two of those verses attracted my attention: v. 4: "Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women;" and v. 12: "Many of the Jews believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men." (NIV)
If I were as well read as I'd like to be, I probably wouldn't need to pose some of the questions I have about that text, but maybe the rest of this discussion group will give me the benefit of your insights on this.
What, if anything, are we to make of these two references to "prominent" women? What implications, if any, do these verses have for the issue of gender justice in 21st century Churches of Christ? Does the adjective "prominent" suggest that women in Thessalonica and Berea were more educated than women in, say, Ephesus were? Was Paul's statement in 1:Tim. 2:12 directed to the church in Ephesus?
I welcome anyone's thoughts on this.
Mark
:::posted by Mark on 11/07/2004 03:53:03 PM
Or perhaps if deconstruction is justice, and justice cannot be deconstructed, and assuming the blog is justice - then it follows that the blog cannot be deconstructed. Therefore I should pronounce myself deconstructed, justly.
(I must be trying to build up an immunity to iocaine powder.)
Now I shall go get a cup of coffee, because it is obvious I need one.
:::posted by Chad on 11/02/2004 10:11:25 AM
Well, since justice is the ultimate goal of deconstruction I suppose that wouldn't be a bad thing, eh?
Jen
:::posted by Jennifer on 11/02/2004 09:55:17 AM
I suppose we - assuming we can say "we," though such a thing is impossible - deconstructed the blog. Again. ;-)
:::posted by Chad on 11/01/2004 04:47:55 PM
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