The purpose of this forum is to facilitate communication and mutual support and edification among those who strive toward gender justice in Churches of Christ. If you would like to join the forum, send an e-mail (including your first and last name) from your primary address to forum@gal328.org.
Katie,
Thanks for bringing a little light in the midst of some dark days.
:::posted by Vicki on 7/30/2004 12:43:46 AM
Wiley, you bet we can get together. You and I have conversed via internet for many years now and have never had the opportunity to meet. I am looking forward to being in Abilene....many sad goodbyes here first. Pray for this all to be smooth.
grace to you, Julie
:::posted by julie on 7/29/2004 03:49:33 PM
Julie,
Does this mean we will be drinking coffee together one of these days on the ACU campus? I still have two daughters (one still a senior!) out there and we make it out there every so often. BTW, I'm a lectureship junkie! Looking forward to February. Also plan on Stream in the Desert if you have never been. It's the first weekend of April 2005 in Midland. Mike Cope will be the speaker this year and of course--Ken Young and Hallal. There's still rooms at the Hampton (I already have three reserved for my family!).
Katie,
Have you and Lance ever considered a GAL328 booth or a Gender Justice booth in the exhibits area. Looks like there might just be volunteer help for it available :>)
:::posted by Wiley on 7/29/2004 12:00:41 AM
Katie,
I'm going to say the same thing Julie said--
Thanks for sharing what is going on in your home and congregation! That's a great uplift from the CC negativity. I hope one of these days Linda and I will make it up there to visit. Lord willing, maybe in about three years I'll have several gas wells on my land down here and almost enough royalty income (after taxes) to afford the gas to drive up :>) it is quite thrilling to hear about these young women going into ministry in the CoC. There's another little glint of a light at the distant end of the tunnel! I hope and pray that those young women don't run into some of the stuff that Shannon has run into in the last year. I know one thing for sure, father's don't handle it near as well as their daughters do when they hear the details from their daughters!!!!!
:::posted by Wiley on 7/28/2004 11:44:38 PM
Katie, Thanks for sharing your summer with us. It is so encouraging to meet young women with passion for their Savior and voices to tell about it.
Our journey continues... we have been at Cedar Ridge Community Church for a month and a half and I love it there but my family is not as comfortable. It is a great church reaching out to their community and everyone is involved. Last Sunday everyone leading was a woman....worship leader, sermon, communion...it was good.
The next part of our journey has begun. We are moving to Abilene, Texas in the next month...hopefully have it all worked out before school starts. Big move and big leap of faith. Keep us in your prayers as we make this huge transition.
grace, Julie
:::posted by julie on 7/27/2004 11:32:52 PM
Wiley, your recent experience with the Christian Chronicle (we sometimes refer to it as the Chronic Christian, for a cheap giggle) is not an isolated happening. Can I leave it at that?
There is so much discouraging news to report. There are so many disheartening conversations to recount. There are deep wells of passivity, fear, naivete, and cowardice to draw from. I'm weary of carrying it all around, and I suspect many of you are, too. So let me, instead, pass on some heartening news.
My little congregation here on Long Island isn't quite big enough to employ ministry interns or apprentices. (And with Lance and me going full steam ahead, these people are just about ministered to death.) But we feel an obligation to pass along the gender-inclusive experience to young women considering ministry in various forms, if we can. So this summer we short-term hosted a total of four ministry interns who were working with other congregations in our area.
An ACU undergraduate interning at Stamford Church of Christ in Connecticut came down to spend a weekend with us. It was an incredibly busy weekend with lots of opportunities for service, fellowship, worship, study, and discussion. She gave a communion devotion in our worship service -- it was a little stilted -- her first time! But when she lay down the manuscript and began to pray in her extemporaneous voice, we could feel the power of a much-practiced life of prayer in her words. I hope she was as blessed as we were by the experience.
In our home, she talked with passion and experience about the church's neglect of justice as a fundamental characteristic of the God we serve. She learned how it grates on me to hear women in their early twenties talk about what various congregations around the country are "letting" women do. She found new language for interpreting her experience as a gifted, passionate woman of God in a church that only wants some of her gifts and almost none of her passion. (All this, not only or even mostly because of her weekend with us, of course, but because of the Stamford congregation's commitment to gender justice qua God's justice.)
A short time later we hosted three young women who are working with the Bronx Fellowship, a church plant associated with the Manhattan Church of Christ. They were under the wing of a wonderfully gifted woman, a missionary with the Bronx church plant. These women (two from ACU, one from Harding) didn't come to NY to observe ministry. They came to DO it, and as they described their work to me, I was overwhelmed by their commitment and energy.
They came out to Long Island to spend a rare sabbath afternoon on the beach, mainly, and secondarily to satisfy their curiosity about me, Lance, and the work we do here. (I think they enjoyed the beach more!) One of them said to us, "At my home church we hear one or two sermons a year about the 'women's issue' -- and then it's only about the danger of discussing such a potentially divisive topic, about how it will ruin our unity and cause a lot of pain. Then we don't talk about it at all because we're afraid to cause all that." They agreed that it was a relief to work in a church where no one worried about WHO was doing WHICH work, as long as the work was getting done.
(This works in the Bronx partly because the energies of the church are directed 95% toward neighborhood social/economic justice ministries, rather than being a congregation centered around the 11 a.m. Sunday meeting hour. But that's a topic for another time.)
I was so impressed with the young women I met this summer. They ask good questions. They're not looking for easy answers. They are bold enough to say they've heard God's call, whether to the kind of ministry I do or some other challenging mode of service in the kingdom. I know each of them will find a way to put their talents to work, whether in the Church of Christ or another Christian denomination.
And one of my favorite things about them -- they ATE with joy and lots of laughter! None of this picking around the plate, pretending not to be hungry... As a host, I love it when guests will eat what's on the table. Young women often won't, and it says a lot about these four that they did: true fellowship, a sense of trust, easy friendship, common commitments... Jesus would have liked, and will someday enjoy, sitting down at table with the women I met this summer.
peace -- Katie
:::posted by Katie on 7/27/2004 08:58:14 PM
The Christian Chronicle is out and some of you who read it will see a letter to the editor from me regarding discrimination (based on an article last month). Well, they published just about four sentences and changed the whole context of why I was writing. They cut out everything I said about discriminating against women in the church! My opinion of the CC has crashed in flames!
Beware the editors of the Christian Chronicle. They are against discrimination---as long as it is directed toward another race of God's children and not directed at God's children who are females.
Reproduced below is my letter.
When I wrote the letter, I was still quite "ticked" at the treatment my daughter had received from the elders at a church in Oklahoma City (that was supposed to be a "good church") when she was interviewing at their request!
From: Wiley Clarkson [mailto:wclarkson@clarksons.org] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:20 AMTo: Christian Chronicle LettersSubject: Inside Story July Issue
"After 40 Years, the Strength to Apologize" is an excellent story about what is happening inside our fellowship in regards to the racial discrimination that has occured over the last century. I was at ACU Lectureship several years ago when steps were taken to change a long history of segregation in the churches of Christ. It was a powerful time! Then later that year came Royce Money's apology. It caused rumbles to be heard in the hallowed halls of our churches and institutions and not all of it was rumbles of joy! We, however, are continueing on in our efforts to heal wounds and that is exactly what we should do. We should heal old wounds that have become filled with the puss of racial discrimination.
When are we going to start seeing headlines such as this:
After 1900 years of restraint, repression, and discrimination, the strength to apologize to women....
When are we going to be brave enough to finally admit that the restrictions on women in the NT are based in the societal framework of the 1st century just as much as foot-washing, the holy kiss, and other societal practices that we no longer practice? When are we going to start removing the gangreenous tissue of sex discrimination from our churches?
Floyd E. Rose, an African-American minister in the churches of Christ and one of those men rejected by ACU in the past, makes this observation in his book An Idea Whose Time Has Come :
Slavery in America was built on the premise that the worst white man was better than the best black man. Male chauvinsim in the church is built on the premise that the least qualified man is more qualified than the most qualified woman.
Rose also made this statement in his book:
It is always the radical few, never the complacent many, who inspire change in any society
Jesus, in the society of the 1st Century, was an extreme radical. Thomas Campbell, Alexander Campbell, and Barton W. Stone (among many others) in the 19th Century were radicals. Men like Lance Pape, Carrol Osburn, Craig Keener, and Floyd E. Rose are the radicals of the end of the 20th Century and the early stages of the 21st Century in trying to bring about constructive change. In the female ranks we have Katie Hayes, D'Esta Love, numerous young women who are already in the mine fields of ministry in the Church of Christ, and many upcoming young women in our Christian universities who have heard the call from God to be in full time ministry from the pulpit to the children's minister position. They are willing to risk the flaming arrows of those who wish to keep them in their "place" in the churches of Christ by following their hearts and the God who calling them into ministry. Most have suffered chrapnel wounds while walking in those minefields and some have taken deeply penetrating wounds by flaming arrows of discrimination and repression.
When are our male only elderships going to have the guts to allow the full study of the gender issues based on all the new information we now have regarding this issue instead of the same old teachings? When are we going to have the guts to realize that we, the men, are quinching the spirit in so many of our women? When are we, the men, going to realize that God does not give a hoot about what sex does the job he needs us to be doing if the job gets done and get on with the business of saving the lost souls of this world and ministering to those who are in need, whether in or out of the churches of Christ? When are we, the men of the churches of Christ, going to have the guts to apologize to the women of our churches for almost 2000 years of repression and abuse and throw open our doors in all areas of church service, worship, and leadership to the fact that women can do exactly the same thing men can do because God made us equal in his eyes first in the Garden, and then through Christ? When are we going to finally see them as our equals, the same way God sees all of us?
The apologies for the racial discrimination in the churches of Christ and the institutions connected to them come very late in the game in my opinion but hopefully never too late to heal the still festering wounds that are out there. They have been received and accepted in every case by our brothers and sisters of color with love. I pray that in my lifetime, this wonderful, slightly miraculous event will lead to another even more miraculous event--an apology to our women that will bring us into a unity in the Spirit that has never before been witnessed in the Christian world of the chruches of Christ!
Leroy Garrett made this observation in the Restoration Review a few years ago:
If the Chruch of Christ is to be saved, it must cease to be male dominated...women are members, of course, and their presence has always been crucial, but they are left out of the corporate worship of the church...we leave our women out, and that is sin!
Rose makes this comment:
Freedom for women to use their gifts in the work and worship of the church, for which God has called and qualified them, is an idea whose time has come.
Grace to you and peace,
Wiley Clarkson
Walnut Springs, TX
Web site: http://www.clarksons.org
Are you looking for information on Gender Justice and the Churches of Christ? http://www.clarksons.org/spirit_leads.htm
:::posted by Wiley on 7/26/2004 06:25:12 PM
Believe it or not, we have actually posted a new article:
Martha’s Choice: A Pastorally Sensitive Reading of Luke 10:38-42 by Chris Hutson.
:::posted by Lance on 7/23/2004 02:13:16 PM
Vicki,
My daughter, Shannon Rains, has been looking for a Children's Ministry position after spending three years at her ministry job in Grand Prairie, TX. At this point, she may also be very open to considering a youth minister position (which I think she would make a good one anyway!!). She has been a summer intern in youth ministry (unheard of at that time in this part of Texas and still almost unheard of!) while she was in undergraduate school at ACU about 7 years ago. She has a Masters Degree in Christian Ministry from ACU Graduate School. Her email is srains@clarksons.org if they are interested.
grace to you and peace.
Wiley Clarkson
:::posted by Wiley on 7/17/2004 05:17:07 PM
Does anyone out there know of any women looking for a position as a youth minister at a medium-sized metro church? Youth group size about 80. Let me know and I will make connections for you.
Thanks,
-Vicki
:::posted by Vicki on 7/16/2004 08:02:18 PM
Warm greetings to all. It's been a while since I've contributed anything to the discussions. I wanted to thank Chris and Chad for their succinct and helpful comments on The DaVinci Code. It is an enduring blot on my status in the family that I am the only one who has not actually read the thing. I hope to correct my sin of omission before the summer is out.
I also wanted to express my empathy for Julie. Decisions to leave a home are probably the most difficult. May God comfort you as only he can.
As a sort of "by the way," our own home has finally started making some positive changes in the inclusion of females. The elders led a quick follow-up study in January-February (we had done one many years ago that concluded changes were scriptural but the majority were not ready for changes at the time). A few assumed there were a some strong-headed women demanding it, and some worried out loud that it would lead to acceptance of homosexuality (another recent topic on this forum). They were surprised to discover the truth: The real impetus has come from the eldership. They themselves are split only over the question of women serving as elders and pulpit ministers, so those areas are being "shelved" for the time being. In any case, about six weeks later, women began serving communion alongside the men. We have a "praise team" that is on the stage through most of the service, and the women in it regularly participate in leading responsive readings. The past two Sundays we had a young woman lead the auditorium class on "Women in the Restoration Movement." Change is often slow, but in our case it seems to keep coming. I'd appreciate your prayers for our continued progress.
Hope all are having a good summer.
Tim
:::posted by Tim on 7/13/2004 03:42:34 PM
Chad,
I think we see The Da Vinci Code in the same light. I agree that for all its blather about the "sacred feminine," it fails as a feminist work. Thanks for the note on the review in the Christian Century, which I'll add to my bibliography for folks who ask me about the book.
Chris
:::posted by Christopher on 7/09/2004 10:05:54 AM
Chris, funny you should mention The DaVinci Code. I was going to refer to it a bit in my talk, because it clearly connects sexuality with spirituality - though not in any coherent fashion, as you note. If blog readers are interested, there's an excellent review of the book by Mark Burrows, a historian of medieval and early modern Christianity, at The Christian Century's site: http://www.christiancentury.org/features3.html#Gospel%20fantasy.
Of particular note is how he mentions that, for all it's friendliness towards the "sacred feminine," TDC still maintains that "male enlightenment" comes through sexual union with the female. If I were a woman, I think I'd be offended at that. Heck, I'm a guy and I'm offended at that.
:::posted by Chad on 7/08/2004 02:02:22 PM
Chad,
about your upcoming course, "Gender, Sex, and the Politics of Postmodernism," I'm not sure about the politics part, but I think I can bring the other aspects together. In June I led an adult VBS discussion of Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code at a United Methodist Church in a nearby town. Dan Brown makes hash of history in this book, but as I worked through the details, I came to a clearer understanding of why his theory fails and why it is so appealing.
Brown, depending heavily on the esoteric writings of Margaret Starbird, offers a postmodern reading of da Vinci's "The Last Supper." That is, he interprets the painting entirely out of his own ideological context without regard to the notebooks of da Vinci or the canons of Renaissance art or any historical understanding of ancient Gnosticism or anything else. He has no sense of the artist's intent in producing the painting, only of his own reaction to it. So he projects his own assumptions onto the painting, using it as a mirror to see himself, not as a lens to see into the thought world of the artist. This strikes me as distinctively postmodern.
Brown's (Starbird's) ideas attract followers among people who are dissatisfied with the many ways Christianity has suppressed women through the centuries. So at first blush, the book appears to strike a blow for feminism. But on closer inspection, it does not offer a feminist revival of Christianity at all. Instead, it offers neo-paganism dressed up in Christian language.
Brown (following Starbird) basically argues for male and female deities, whose sexual union is the essence of his religion. This is essentially a fertility religion. It claims to be about liberating female gender, but it's really just about sex. It's stuck in this world with little sense of the transcendence of God.
I would argue, by contrast, that we Christians need to be wary of our anthropomorphic projections of maleness onto God. God is beyond gender, encompassing all that we consider masculine and feminine and more. In Christianity, the liberation of women should derive not from positing a female deity beside the supposedly "male" deity, but from recognizing the both male and female are created "in the image of God" (Gen 1).
So, what do you think, Chad? Does this move in the direction you were heading? Does anyone else have a thought about The Da Vinci Code?
Chris
:::posted by Christopher on 7/08/2004 09:25:43 AM
I have been a little uneasy about posting. Not sure about the audience and not sure what to share. I felt like I was so careful before and still offended people...so I will rest for awhile. I am sad that the conversation here has dwindled to almost nothing.
grace, Julie
:::posted by julie on 7/07/2004 11:45:27 PM
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