The purpose of this forum is to facilitate communication and mutual support and edification among those who strive toward gender justice in Churches of Christ. If you would like to join the forum, send an e-mail (including your first and last name) from your primary address to forum@gal328.org.
Hey all,
Just catching up after a few dormant months and saw Chad's RFI. Since we've just finished our class dealing with Hermeneutics and specifically the "Slaves, Women, & Homosexuals" book by Webb that I've previously discussed, many of those topics came up. Going off of an anonymous poll that we ran part way through class, I'd generally say that, using the age-old lingo, we're fairly divided on the women's issue with a fair amount of acceptance of at least some more movement considered desireable. However, we're still very conservative on the same-sex marriage issue, or at least, the acceptance of Christians who are practicing homosexuals. Personally, I see those as two separate issues, but I won't go there. As far as politically, I'd say we're divided in that camp as well. I would say our preacher/adult teachers are generally more progressive/Christocentric than the overall body while our eldership is primarily nurturing. Our deacons cover a wide spectrum. However, I don't know how representative we are as our congregation has an extremely have ratio of 1st generation Church of Christ and to a lesser extent, 1st generation Christian members.
--Jason
:::posted by Jason on 6/30/2004 10:36:23 PM
I started to type a response several times, Chad, then realized that I need to think about this more this. Anyway, I think Madeira just woke up so gotta go.
:::posted by Indie on 6/30/2004 02:20:17 PM
Hmm...I can't decide to try and revive the blog through V-CPR or else give myself a paper cut and pour lemon juice on it. Let's try the former.
Later in the summer I'm going to be doing a class at a campus ministry seminar, for which the title is "Gender, Sex, and the Politics of Postmodern Christianity." I'll let your imaginations run rampant as to what the heck that's about; when you decide, please let me know! :-) What I'm curious about is the extent to which the conversations surrounding the terms in the class title are connected. What is happening in your churches, with conversations about gender roles, perceptions of the same-sex marriage debate, and the upcoming election this year? Do our views on one or more of these concerns shape our understandings of the others? I guess I'm interested in what's going on "on the ground", as it were, out wherever you are.
Always trying to bring life to the dead,
Chad
:::posted by Chad on 6/29/2004 01:06:57 PM
Jeffrey Eugenides. It was a good book in many ways, but part of the ending was contrived and distracting from the theme of the book, or maybe I just missed something.
Look in the fiction section in the ACU store, there's some good stuff there.
ksw
:::posted by Kevin Wells on 6/23/2004 10:53:37 PM
Kevin,
Who's the author of that book? We're experiencing life without a TV this summer (good for the soul, this ascetic type stuff, you know) and I've run out of books already.
Jen
:::posted by Jennifer on 6/23/2004 12:38:48 PM
Indigo Girls concert Saturday night...it was the best!! I thought of all of you while we were singing with our fists in the air...Go! Go! Go! Raise your hands, raise your hands high! Don't take a seat. Don't stand aside. Go! Go! Go!
Powerful evening. grace to all of you, Julie
:::posted by julie on 6/21/2004 11:55:25 PM
I just finished reading the Pulitzer prize winning book Middlesex. It's a quite sad book, but raises a number of gender related questions.
I wonder how a church that restricts women in the assembly would address a hermaprodite who is raised as a female, but is hormonally a male. Possessing certain physical charictaristics of both.
While this type of question may be automatically discounted by a restrictive church, it may make someone think about how fundamental gender is to God if in the created order there are persons who genetically (let alone socailly) defy common catagories.
Kevin Wells
:::posted by Kevin Wells on 6/21/2004 10:03:24 AM
Lance,
"This forum often demonstrates the pain caused by the status quo. I have no intention of censoring it."
Thank you. We need this place, even if it isn't as private as we would like and often pretend.
I don't see this as a "platform". I see it as a journal of this painful walk to freedom and justice. If our journeys are difficult to read about, it is all the more so to be the one wearing the shoes. To silence/censor our voices here equates to the silencing/censoring of our voices in our churches.
-Vicki
:::posted by Vicki on 6/17/2004 01:44:55 AM
Recently I’ve been getting mail from concerned readers who don’t want to see the forum used as a platform for one-sided criticisms against a local church. These concerns bring into sharp relief one of the tensions inherent in the Gal328 forum.
On the one hand, the forum attempts to create community and “safe” space for those who are isolated or under-supported in their efforts to promote gender justice. This function requires and encourages intimacy and candor. On the other hand, the forum exists to provide a broad hearing for the views of those who advocate for gender justice. This function requires that the forum be public.
Readers are reminded that posts on the forum do not necessarily represent a balanced account of the situations they describe. Sometimes you are reading the words of people in pain and people in pain are rarely “fair and balanced.” There is a lot of talk in our churches about the pain caused by change. This forum often demonstrates the pain caused by the status quo. I have no intention of censoring it.
Forum participants are reminded that this “conversation” is actually a broadcast. The real-world space that provides the best analogy for this forum is not the minister’s office, but the foyer, or perhaps even the pulpit. Please use discretion.
:::posted by Lance on 6/15/2004 12:26:05 PM
Julie,
Yes, there will be a place that feel like home. This one may or may not be it, but there will be a place. Remember that you've suffered a loss, a deep one, so allow yourself time to grieve. It takes time, the great arms of a loving God, and the family we know as "church" to heal those wounds.
May you find "home, sweet home" soon.
-Vicki
:::posted by Vicki on 6/13/2004 09:46:58 PM
I have been thinking about both these analogies all day. Both can be carried so far and still make so much sense. While holding open those doors I was doing so many things...dodging arrows, encouraging, planning worship, leading worship, and all the while holding the door...I am sure contorting my body to be able to do all of these at the same time.
While at church this morning I kept thinking about our old church family and what they were doing at the moment and again feeling kind of guilty that I just couldn't hang on. I kept thinking about how my mom makes better dressing for thanksgiving, and I love the way the sheets smell at my house...because my mom hangs them on the clothesline to dry, and my mom knows what I am talking about...I don't have to explain things when I tell a story.... This new place is healthier but it doesn't feel like home...will it ever?
grace, Julie
:::posted by julie on 6/13/2004 08:47:59 PM
Julie,
You are such an example for me--I haven't yet taken my turn at "holding the door open," to borrow your metaphor. Maybe it's simply time to allow someone else step up. Maybe that's the next step that someone else needs--to feel the call to serve as you have been doing. Who can say? I pray that someone in the congregation will do just that--take your place at the door.
Even Jesus withdrew sometimes...I wonder if he felt guilty when he needed rest?
Jennifer
:::posted by Jennifer on 6/13/2004 04:37:42 PM
Okay..so now you have two versions of the same story from me. I am still learning this new format on the blog site. Sorry. Julie
:::posted by julie on 6/12/2004 11:30:55 AM
I typed a very long blog last night and then something happened and I lost it. Very sad. I didn't have the heart to start all over last night but I will attempt today.
I am experiencing so many different feelings from this transition that we are making.
First of all, honest feelings of relief from not having to hold the doors open for everyone all the time. I have felt for years that Ann and I were holding the doors open for our church family. They could see inside and view the beauty, smell the fresh air, and experience how bright and airy it was but they were all standing outside still. Some had crept very close but just didn't have the courage to go inside or come outside as it may be. Some were in the middle of crowd and just plain bewildered and had been moving with the crowd but unaware of their own movement. Some were standing in the back of the crowd, just within eyesight but with their arms folded and unwilling to budge ever. They could see the freedom and smell it but were wanting to stay with their gray walls, stagnant thoughts, and quietness. I am tired of holding the doors and if they want to enter they will have to move forward themselves and open the doors and walk in. They are aware and now it is up to them.
There is another part of me that feels like I am abandoning the Church of Christ. I feel like I have run away from my dysfunctional family and have moved in with another family. They are not my family but will love me and nurture me and allow me to use my gifts. They are already outside the doors and basking in the sun and the freedom of Christ. (I know that technically they are also my family....but I am just saying how this feels to me) I feel guilty...like I should have stayed with the Church of Christ and used my gifts and my strengths to make things change and bring them outside but I am so weary and have felt my joy slowly being sucked out of me. I have had a difficult life and somehow the Spirit has led me gently through it all and miraculously with my joy intact. I feel that slipping away and I am afraid of becoming bitter and angry. I feel a strong need to guard my heart.
Any thoughts on all this? Have any of you been where I have been?
grace, Julie
:::posted by julie on 6/12/2004 11:12:31 AM
Still so many thoughts and truly nowhere to work them through...so you all are my sounding boards.
For so many years I have felt like I have been holding open a very heavy door and Ann had the other identical door. We were holding them open and beckoning our church family in. Some were creeping closer but were still skeptical, even though they could see the beauty inside the doors and feel the fresh air. Some were just puzzled and moving along with the crowd. Some had already run in the other direction as far as they could run and still others were standing in the distance, just within our eyesight, folding their arms across their chests and not wanting to ever budge...even though where they were standing was cold and drafty and the walls were gray and the thoughts were stale. My arms gave out on me...I couldn't hold the doors open for them anymore. They have seen, felt, heard and smelled what that freedom offers but they will have to open the doors themselves. I can't do it for them and my arms need to heal...so does my heart.
My other thoughts are kind of weird and conflicted. I feel like I have run away from home. I have run from my dysfunctional family to protect myself from their barbs. I have run to a healthy family and they feel so good to me. But I feel guilty. I feel as if I should still own my family and should be strong for them and use the gifts that God has given to me to help them be stronger. But they were stealing my joy and I don't know if that joy would survive in that environment for much longer. I was so afraid of becoming bitter and angry and not being able to move out of that. I have been through much in my life and the Holy Spirit has guided me so gently through it all and my joyful spirit was intact...but recently I have felt that joy slipping away.
Can any of you out there relate to these feelings?
grace, Julie
:::posted by julie on 6/11/2004 11:01:47 PM
I've been gone for 2 weeks and have not had time to post.
Julie,
I was deeply saddened to read of your family's decision to leave Bowie. Sad because of my ties to Bowie, but also because I have sensed through reading your posts how much of a struggle it's been for you. I am happy that you and Tim have made a decision that has brought you peace. Your family and the church in Bowie will be in my prayers.
God Bless,
Tracy
:::posted by Tracy on 6/08/2004 10:28:10 PM
Worship renewal movments such as contemplative Taize services seem to helping form ties between many accross denominational lines. The Revised Common Lectionary (RCL)which has found increasing popularity has some of it's roots in the ecumenical movement. I'm not aware of any more comprehensive projects at the National Council of Church level, but I could be mistaken.
There is educational curriculum out there that has denominational specific variants and follows the RCL. I don't remember what it's called right now though.
Kevin
:::posted by Kevin Wells on 6/08/2004 11:18:34 AM
I was raised in an Independent Presbyterian church and we sang the Doxology at the close of every morning worship service. The minister, who was also the song leader, had a wonderful base voice that just boomed into every corner of that small auditorium (guess that's where I learned my "booming" song leading/singing style :>) ). The 1st 7 years in the CoC I cannot remember it ever being sung. Then we moved to Walnut Springs from Mansfield (southeast of Ft.Worth) and one of the elders (who became one of my closest friends) loved to lead it or have it sung as the closing song. It was just about his favorite song of praise in the song book. After I took over the song leading duties (which I did for 19 years), I led that song many, many times as a closing song. Everytime I sing that song now, I think of my friend who has left this earthly life behind.
Grace to you and peace. Wiley
:::posted by Wiley on 6/08/2004 05:54:00 AM
Jen,
I don't think there's anything "official" going on in the ecumenical movement (though perhaps Kevin could speak to this). However, the music of the Taize community in France is spreading across confessional lines, and people of all backgrounds have been finding it healing.
The talk of the Doxology reminds me of the Rich Mullins concert I went to back in 1995 at the Ryman Auditorium (front-row seats too!). He ended the show by leading us all in singing the Doxology acapella. Wow. Never will forget that one.
Peace,
Chad
:::posted by Chad on 6/07/2004 01:14:46 PM
Julie and Tom's comments make me wonder if anything has been done to explore the power of music to bring about reconciliation in the larger ecumenical sense...is anyone familiar enough with the ecumenical movement to answer this? just curious.
As a side note, Brent and I are at ACU for the summer, teaching some undergrad Bible courses (which for Brent is old hat but is new & exciting for me). If anyone's ever in the neighborhood, look for us on the third floor of the library!
Jen
:::posted by Jennifer on 6/07/2004 09:38:48 AM
Julie,
We had a baptism at the end of our second service at Frederick today, a man who was released from eleven months in jail just this morning. After the baptism, we, too, sang the Doxology to close; it gave me chills. What a powerful connection is that song, between saints everywhere on earth and in heaven, in earthly imperfection and heavenly perfection.
God bless you and Tim as you follow him.
Praise God from whom all blessings flow...
-Tom
:::posted by TWD on 6/06/2004 09:21:59 PM
I feel like I am taking all of you on our journey with us. Today was our first Sunday away from the Bowie Church of Christ. We went to Cedar Ridge Community Church and it was wonderful. Message was great and worship was freeing. Thank you, Katie, for your words of encouragement..."Live it up!" It was emotional for me but also relaxing...does that make sense? Found that we knew many people there..even a couple we knew from the Church of Christ summer camp. We ended the worship time with the doxology sung acappella. It was a sign for all of us...for some because it was acappella and for Tim and I because it was one of his dad's favorites and would sing it as the blessing before meals. Keep praying for us because we feel a little displaced and a little homeless. I have never experienced this before and it is difficult. grace, Julie
:::posted by julie on 6/06/2004 08:06:06 PM
Julie,
There are times when it becomes necessary to move on for your own spiritual well being. Apparently, this is one of them. I truely hope you will find peace and a church family that will allow you to grow spiritually and to become involved to your fullest potential.
BTW, I had the priviledge of meeting Tracy on Sunday Morning at Granbury! I think I made her "kind of" late to Bible class. I had to go into work early so didn't get to see her after the class (or help my wife teach the 2nd graders). She mentioned Bowie and you in our conversation.
God's grace to you and peace.
:::posted by Wiley on 6/03/2004 09:19:19 PM
Julie, please don't take the inactivity on the forum as anything other than the prayerful, respectful quietness of our virtual community's contemplation of the bold and needful choice your family has made. We are glad to hear of the peace you are experiencing; it is the surest way I know of to be sure your will is in line with God's. "Hang in there" has been the encouragement to many who have hung on for so long. Perhaps "Live it up!" is the new exhortation for you and yours! "For freedom Christ has set us free!" (another favorite verse in Galatians).
peace -- Katie
:::posted by Katie on 6/02/2004 01:09:20 PM
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