The purpose of this forum is to facilitate communication and mutual support and edification among those who strive toward gender justice in Churches of Christ. If you would like to join the forum, send an e-mail (including your first and last name) from your primary address to forum@gal328.org.
I've been thinking about the role of protector the last couple of days. I think Carmen makes a good point. When the role of protector is assumed because of the identity of the protector rather than the need of the "protectee," then the role becomes oppressive and burdensome. I think this is what happens between men and women, and here in Changsha, between Americans and Chinese as well. For some reason we feel a compulsion to protect our brothers and sisters here from some of the more unpleasant or difficult truths about this family they've joined. We don't want to tell them about the schisms and arguments in our past, or about disagreements among ourselves, for fear that it will be discouraging. And yet this attitude spells out certain disaster somewhere down the line for those whose carefully built cocoon of safe ignorance will be suddenly ripped away (as it surely will be, at some point). We assume the tole of Teacher based on our American nationality, and assign the role of "babes" based on others' Chinese nationality. How is this any different from assuming the role of protector based on maleness, or assigning "protectee" based on femaleness? I think we go wrong when we look at the role as a permanent one rather than a temporary service. Sometimes I need protection, and sometimes I need to do the protecting. If we can't switch roles as demands on us change, we handicap ourselves.
Merry Christmas, everyone! Our Christmas here (yesterday, for me) was different but wonderful. Hope yours is just as good.
Jen
:::posted by Jennifer on 12/25/2002 09:36:20 PM
Thanks Julie and Katie! As an actor, I don't want to give roleplaying a bad name. Roles are something we use to adapt to almost everything. Roles are a kind of hiding place that everyone is aware of as we pretend not to be ... a social convention which is not always bad, but never good without a measure of consent from all concerned. Man as protector of woman is a role. It can be a good role, and often is. But when man is so caught up in this role as protector of woman, that he protects woman from her True Source of protection, then the role of protector has turned in on itself and become a satan for both the man and the woman (I mean "a satan" in the Hebrew sense as Jesus called Peter -- a stumbling block) and can even make itself out to be a God. Humankind cannot fully understand reconcilliation with God until we reconcile with each other and that begins with the first fractured relationship ... Man and Woman.
I'm looking forward to having a look at "Big Mama" tomorrow.
Happy Holidays!
Carmen
San Diego
:::posted by Carmen on 12/23/2002 12:15:34 AM
I love it Carmen!!! Thanks for the lightness! I have a children's book recommendation for all of you. It is titled "Big Mama Makes the World". It is God as a woman with a baby on her hip making the world...incredibly well done!!! Find it and read for yourself and to your children. It is priceless. grace, Julie
:::posted by julie on 12/20/2002 08:48:34 PM
Excellent, Carmen. Well done. Happy holidays, all. peace -- Katie
:::posted by Katie on 12/20/2002 06:41:31 PM
I worked this up while I was running my little doggies (a long-horned besinji and a dachsund) north (on Palm Avenue). I hope you like it. I call it "RoleHide" and it is best when sung to the tune of my favorite TV series western, Rawhide.
Role'n, role'n, role'n,
Keep them wimmin role'n along.
No time to understand 'em!
Just book, chap and verse 'em!
They'll be walkin' to end of the line.
Make 'em sit. Never speak.
Never stand. Make 'em sit.
Make ’em sit. Never speak.
RoleHide!
Don’t give 'em a hint that you’re in doubt!
‘Cause when backed in a corner you can always shout,
“Blame it on Paul!”
Role Hiiiiiiiiide!
YeeeHA!!!
:::posted by Carmen on 12/20/2002 05:46:45 PM
Katie,
It's the pits when ya gotta work and can't get off! While you are in Abilene, I'll be playing games (security vrs the terriorists) at the nuclear plant where I work! How many people do you know get to play games with rubber guns for a living? :>) I'll tell Kristie and Kathie to be sure to try to meet you at after chapel.
:::posted by Wiley on 12/18/2002 10:18:02 PM
Wiley, I won't be at ACU's lectureship. Someone's gotta' stay here and preach! peace -- Katie
:::posted by Katie on 12/18/2002 10:10:14 AM
I just read this in Newsweek (Dec. 23, 2002): "The son of a shipyard pipe fitter and a devout, piano-playing teacher who'd been raised in the Church of Christ, [Trent] Lott has spent his entire life obsessed with bringing order to chaos..." (p. 28)
Goes toward Lance's point that someday we'll be embarrassed to have been on the wrong side of the gender justice question.
peace -- Katie
:::posted by Katie on 12/18/2002 09:12:00 AM
Lance,
That is going to be a bad week for me, but I will be seeing you in classes at ACU. I already have my Vac time in for the Lectureship week. Have to work Feb 9-13 and on Feb 14 (my only day off that week), I will be taking my wife out to dinner for our 29th anniversary (man-time sure flies when you're having fun:>) )which is on Feb 15th (and another work day!). I should also be a new grandfather by then--the baby (River Cadence Rains) is due around the 4th (I'll announce it here and on GCMagazine when I make grandfather status!). I know Shannon would love to meet both of you but I think that baby will still be occupying most of her attention that week. Since Katie will be speaking at the general chapel, my guess is she will definitely get to meet my twin daughters, Kristie and Kathie, after chapel. Any chance Katie will be able to be with you at Lectureship?
Pepperdine - huh! For me, going to their lectureship would be like a Muslem making a trip to Mecca :>) ! (Guess I'll be ordering some tapes from them this year!) However, looking at what Mark has put together for this year's ACU Lectureship, look behind you Pepperdine!
:::posted by Wiley on 12/18/2002 08:57:44 AM
Wiley,
I'm not going to run a booth at ACU Lectureship. Maybe in the future. I am planning to have a table at the Pepperdine lectures. Katie will be teaching at Pepperdine, but I'll be free to be in Gal328.org mode the whole time. By the way, Katie will also be at ACU the week of February 9th, speaking at the general chapel assembly, to the Bible majors chapel, and to the preaching class. Maybe we can get together with some of you at one of these events.
:::posted by Lance on 12/17/2002 09:51:08 PM
Shelly,
It is because people are tired of the ultra legalism that took over the CoC in the 20th century. All of the things you mentioned are issues that seem to be imbedded in the move away from legalism to a more grace-centered position. However, this is just my opinion--for what it's worth :>)
:::posted by Wiley on 12/16/2002 10:59:02 PM
Lance,
I know you are going to be at ACU to teach a couple of Lectureship classes (see you there:>) ). Are you also going to run a booth in the exhibits area?
:::posted by Wiley on 12/16/2002 10:43:22 PM
Just wanted to give forum participants a heads up on some new site content, all of which is accessible from the home page.
:::posted by Lance on 12/16/2002 08:33:38 PM
OK, Vic, I'll help break the silence - I never did like it when you shushed me!
I have a question for everyone. There are so many traditions in the Church being shaken right now, women's roles (a term I have come to dislike), communion, elderships, worship types, worship teams, etc. I've never seen so many different types of changes taking place at one time. What do you think is responsible for the big shake-up. Maybe I'm feeling it more than some. (We've lost our pulpit minister, involvement minister, and now our youth minister :o( all since Easter - all for different reasons.) Maybe I'm being over-sensative, or maybe I just opened my eyes?
Shelly
:::posted by Shelly on 12/16/2002 09:13:29 AM
Vicki,
Thanks for the welcome. I really appreciate what you said about reluctance to voice thoughts & opinions. I still feel this way myself, even when I'm pretty sure I'm in "friendly territory." Going to school really helped, but now that I'm no longer in a school environment, I think I'm regressing. It's easy to recognize, and excuse, the Chinese reluctance to speak up. But I don't have that same excuse--I'm supposed to be an outspoken American, after all. I think part of it is that, although I now have a degree in religion which sortof gives me "permission" to have opinions on stuff, no one here ever seems to remember that I have it. I know that this doesn't negate the time I put into it, but it sure does feel like that sometimes. That's one of the reasons I realized I really needed to jump into the ongoing conversations here.
I hope your Sunday was an encouragement and a blessing!
Jen
:::posted by Jennifer on 12/15/2002 10:17:08 PM
It's been so quiet here lately, it makes me want to go, "Shhhh." Ya'll must be being doing Christmas things. I hope the season is full of hope and peace for all.
About 20 (not all at the same time) of our church family has been meeting on Sunday and Wednesday nights for several weeks in various homes. It's been good for us to be together. We spend some time venting frustration and anger over our loss, some discussing our future, some discussing Scripture, and some in prayer. All of us, plus a few who haven't met with us yet, will meet this Sunday night for the first time in the building of a little charismatic church who has been so gracious to Phil and I. They just gave him a key! We long to come to the Table together again as one in body and spirit. Our future is uncertain and undetermined in our feeble minds, but it is certain and sure in God's. We share a sense of wonder at this feeling we all have that He has something big planned for us to do. And we are ready to do it.
Our tree is small (24") and our gifts around it few, but I have never felt so blessed in my life!
Looking forward to a new year with a clean canvas,
-Vicki
:::posted by Vicki on 12/14/2002 08:42:02 AM
Jen -
Welcome to the 3:28 family!
I found your statement, "There is also a sort of general reluctance to ask questions at all, simply because this means admitting ignorance," had a familiar feel for me. Until I was in my mid-30's, I was reluctant to ask questions (maybe because it was more of a questioning of "doctrine", something few women were doing then) because I felt not educated enough. Not ignorant, just not qualified to question the PhD's of my day. My thoughts ran along the lines of, "Well, I don't get out of this passage what they're saying, but they're smarter than I am." So, I accepted their teachings, albeit reluctantly. It wasn't until I heard a man speak boldy from the pulpit on music - instruments, choirs, solos, etc. - that I found I could trust my own interpretation of God's Word. I wanted to jump up from my seat and shout "YES! That's what I always thought!"
My point is, I guess, that sometimes people just need to hear one other person whom they respect and trust (that's the time issue Katie mentioned) to speak their thoughts - to give them validity. Maybe you are there to be their voice.
May God be honored in all that you do for Him in China!
- Vicki
:::posted by Vicki on 12/12/2002 09:17:04 PM
Thanks for the welcome, everyone!
In response to Katie's query about whether the Chinese are asking questions about gender justice--I think they HAVE questions, but it's not often that questions like that are voiced. I think there are several reasons for this. Part of it is cultural. There is a lot of emphasis on equality for women in the workplace, etc., but these kinds of politically correct opinions are kept segregated from personal attitudes, which tend to the patriarchal still. (Many people have expressed astonishment at the fact that my husband voluntarily washes dishes, for example.) There is also a sort of general reluctance to ask questions at all, simply because this means admitting ignorance. I think the other reason we don't hear questions on this kind of level very much is that most of us are short-term (like Brent and I are; we applied to PhD programs for next year, though who knows how THAT will turn out), and a year is not really long enough to build the kind of relationship in which people feel safe asking these kinds of things.
The Chinese women have participated (in the ways we have encouraged) very naturally without any sign of unease, nor have the men shown any kind of unease at hearing a woman ask a question about the text or read. So I think that, left on their own, the Chinese would be naturally egalitarian. I think the Chinese view church as a public activity, and therefore the public standards of equality apply, rather than the personal attitudes which apply to family & home. It helps, too, that the Three-Self Patriotic Movement (the official Chinese church) ordains women, so that the basic expectation is that women should participate in religious leadership rather than not.
Mary Lou, what was your friend's name and where was he? The world of foreign teachers here is a small one--we might even know each other!
Carmen, I think it's awesome that there was so much acceptance of Catholic culture in the church in Naples. It's so encouraging to hear that! I wish we were as culturally sensitive here. Part of the problem is the enormous cultural distance, but I feel that most of us are simply not adequately prepared in this area. It may not be entirely our fault, but Chinese Christians basically have to adopt a whole new culture. One christian, when asked to pray in chinese, explained that he didn't know how to pray in chinese but could only pray in English! That's a pretty sad commentary on how we do things, eh?
Jen Thweatt-Bates
:::posted by Jennifer on 12/10/2002 10:24:05 PM
Jennifer,
I hope you post often. I'd like to hear more from your perspective as a missionary.
Mary Lou, I agree that women leaders need to be visible for the members. Female confessors should be a requirement for all churches interested in maintaining high standards for personal behaviour, sensitivity and insight. I am sad to say that I have seen the broken homes and broken hearts that were largely a result of exclusive male counseling sancitoned by exclusively male leaderships.
Thanks Shelly! It's nice to share the podium with Julie!
-- Carmen
San Diego
:::posted by Carmen on 12/10/2002 06:17:00 PM
Jennifer,
I was intrigued by your mention of the Chinese woman who wanted you to baptize her not only because you had been studying with her, but because of the modesty issue. It was precisely for this sort of reason that in early Restoration history, women served as deacons. Check out the links to Hans Rollman's web site. David Lipscomb, for one, felt that every church should have women deacons to avoid the appearance of impropriety that might be created if men were to visit widows in their homes.
We have a friend who taught English as a second language in China for a year and found it to be a wonderfully enriching experience. I hope it is the same for you. (FYI, he said that when he occasionally needed help with issues there or just needed an English-speaking ear to talk to, the American embassy was worse than useless but the Irish embassy was very helpful and friendly.) Don't know if it is still the same but it might be worth keeping in mind.
--Mary Lou Hutson, Charlotte, NC
:::posted by Christopher on 12/10/2002 05:45:01 PM
Congratulations, Carmen! Congrats also to "our" Julie who also had an article on New Wineskins http://www.wineskins.org/content.asp?CID=48184. It sounded familiar to me as I was reading, so I wasn't surprised to look back up and see Julie as author. :o)
:::posted by Shelly on 12/10/2002 01:12:59 PM
Just noticed that our own Carmen Beaubeaux has an article in the Nov/Dec issue of New Wineskins: A provocative essay in which she argues that TV is actually optional! I'm not fully convinced, but it is certainly food for thought.
:::posted by Lance on 12/10/2002 09:53:37 AM
Jennifer, it's good to hear that you and Brent are well and pursuing your dream of mission work in China. I hope it's been exactly the enriching experience you were hoping for.
If I remember correctly, you're there for the short term, right? A year or so? If so, you might consider that making changes in something like women's participation in worship usually takes a long, long, long time, with plenty of time spent in the trust-building stage... Gender justice is but the tangible expression of very deep, foundational changes in how we read scripture, how we deal with each other, how we view the church and all creation, and more. And that insight is gleaned from my limited experience working with white, upper-middle-class, suburban, American Christians! Who knows what it looks like or how long it takes when you're talking about a cross-cultural, cross-language, cross-everything experience on the other side of the world?
I love your example of the awkwardness of men baptizing women in China, though it pains me to hear that (again) some of our American weirdness has befuddled the baby Christians we are sent to nourish. That's a great test case for checking which of our prohibitions are cultural and which are "scriptural."
Thanks for checking in. Hope to hear from you more often, especially as regards the Chinese Christians' take on this whole question. (If they're asking the question at all.)
peace -- Katie
:::posted by Katie on 12/09/2002 02:02:20 PM
Welcome, Jen! And God bless you in your work.
You are not interupting, but distilling.
(Talk about your slippery slopes: women teaching and preaching, the next thing, distilling, then wine on Sunday!) (Gasp!)
:::posted by Beverly on 12/07/2002 03:16:20 AM
Hello,
I have been reading comments in the forum since it started, I think, and have enjoyed the discussions immensely. In the States it was enough for me to just be on the sidelines, but now that my husband and I are in China, I am finding it necessary to expand my captive audience of one (that would be my husband) for gender discussions. He hasn't complained, but still...
We are teaching English in Changsha, the capital of Hunan Province. There are several other teachers here, all recruited by the same individual, all of us Churches of Christ. We meet together on Sundays, of course. Our group has stuck to the normal patriarchal pattern of doing things seemingly by default. We have four guys in the group who split worship responsibilities among themselves. My husband and I are both struggling with the question of when and how to address this, and whether it would do more harm than good. On the bright side, the oldest member of our group (at 72 years old) said at the beginning of his lesson last Sunday that he would ask everyone to read some verses, and he did indeed ask everyone. Reading Scripture is a small step, but it was a big day for us. If any one has advice about how to go about starting constructive discussions in a small group setting (7 Americans, 5 Chinese), please speak up!
There was a question some weeks ago (I can't remember who posted it) about women's roles in the mission field, particularly with reference to baptism. I think the idea was that due to the scarcity of personnel in those situations, women are more included in leadership roles out of necessity. I'm sure that whether or not this happens depends heavily on the particular situation. I'm afraid my exerience has been the opposite. My first year in China (1998, before marriage and grad school at ACU) a girl requested that I baptize her. She was studying with a fellow teacher, and asked him if I could do this. His reply was, "isn't God a man?" She was very confused by this answer, and I'm sorry to say, I was so shocked and angry that I could not even begin to address it. She was baptized by this fellow teacher. (This is a weird situation for girls in China, who are extremely modest, and the thought of getting into a pool or bathtub with a man officiating is very unnerving.) Over and over I've seen our American baggage brought over and spilt out here in China, and for some reason, the issue of gender justice is the biggest piece of baggage ever. And, just like it is in America, the enforced silence of women in the church is a stumbling block to those who otherwise are attracted to the warmth and caring they see in the community of the church, because it just doesn't fit.
I know this is an interruption to the ongoing discussion, but I just wanted to introduce myself and let you know where I'm coming from. I carry a lot of baggage myself from that year in Wuhan (1998-99). It was a rough introduction to the gravity and urgency of establishing gender justice in the church. I am so glad that people like y'all are out there...it's very easy to feel all alone, especially when you're far away in some city no one's ever heard of in the middle of China!
Jen Thweatt-Bates
:::posted by Jennifer on 12/06/2002 10:50:52 PM
Beverly,
Thank you. Yes, this is good news and I am adding your words to those of a chief pathologist who is a lymph tissue specialist in a major hospital here. I asked a friend who works in the lab to show him Christopher's records. He was very nice. He called me yesterday and spent 30 minutes discussing the report with me. The only thing he could suggest we do differently is to ask them to send tissue to the University of Mexico. We meet with the oncologist again today and I will suggest that.
Beverly, thank you so much for taking the time to share your wisdom and professional knowledge. Since Chris has been dubbed "mystery man" at Children's Hosptial, it may well be that fascinoma is the ultimate diagnosis.
:::posted by Carmen on 12/06/2002 12:50:37 PM
Great discussion... Lance, you expressed much of what I was thinking of saying, but more eloquently. Docetism is an excellent word, and is perhaps more descriptive than the oxymoronic "post-modern" of where much of modern Christendom has drifted in the effort to be non-offensive. The incarnation of God as a man, he pregnancy of an not-quite-yet-wed girl was scandalous, the interaction of the man Jesus with a divorced Samaritan woman, the crucifixion were/are all scandalous. But they are what God chose, and not for us to ignore.
Carmen, I like your emphasis on the full circle of male and female. I think we sometimes get the facts backward as we try to seek masculine and feminine traits in God, instead of seeing that, as the image of God, male and female together come from God. God doesn't have human traits, we have divine traints. And so Mary's womb and Jesus' maleness are both of God.
It is far better to base a theology of gender solidly in these facts than in the neo-docetist (to coin a word) idea that seem so prevalent that foundational beliefs really don't matter, as they are all just metaphorical, or the ludicrous patriarchal idea that all men have authority over all women, and women can only participate through permission granted from one with Y chromosone.
Grace and peace,
-Tom
:::posted by TWD on 12/06/2002 12:36:19 PM
First, a quick comment on the gender of Jesus. If I really do believe that God looks at my spirit and not my gender, then why would I try to revise history about Jesus'?
Carmen, I'm praying for your son. He may just have a "fascinoma." Which, can be painful because of what we fascinated doctors do to you to understand it better.
My son's stepdaughter is 27months old. She was born unable to make white blood cells properly, and her bone marrow gradually failed over her first year. One year ago this month she had a stem cell transplant with donor cells from donated umbilical cord blood, which "took" fantastically. But, no one was able to give a definitive "name" to her problem or tell us why it showed up in her.
My brother had "fever of unknown origin 10 years ago, and the cause was never determined (6 weeks of 105 fever about every 12 hours.) But, he was cured when they took out his spleen. No signs of infection or genetic causes were determined. He's proud to say that his spleen has been to the finest medical schools in the world, even if he hasn't.
The point of all this is to give you hope and a little caveat: you don't necessarily need a "diagnosis." If there are no scarey symptoms or lab changes, and what ever this is changes slowly, then it isn't something to be scared of! "Watch and wait may be a good choice."
I hope this is the good news I meant it to be.
:::posted by Beverly on 12/06/2002 11:22:52 AM
Lance, with $10 words like "Docetism," I can safely say you've contributed more than $10.02! You make some excellent points, and I find myself basically in agreement. There are certainly different approaches to inclusive language, and I reject the idea that the church needs to somehow "sanitize" gender out of its liturgy. I assume virtually all of us would agree with Katie in that references to human beings should be inclusive. The tension involves our references to God.
When I accepted Jesus as Christ, I understood Jesus to be both human and divine. I believe that the Jesus of history was indeed a person, not some amorphous concept. I also know that one of the gifts of Jesus' teaching was that God is intimately connected to us as "Father," not just some "theo-vapor" floating in space.
That being said, I think that we do our children a disservice when our choice of devotional language "personifies" to the point that we postulate God as a material entity. While God came down to humankind in the incarnation, we are unable to fathom God's full essence. That is why I find Michelangelo's images of God troubling, and why I generally question attempts to portray the divine in the visual arts. Even language is lacking. Each individual metaphor is but a glimpse. For me, Tillich's proclamation of "ultimate reality" or "ground of being" helps somewhat.
The reason I chose to quote the third stanza of that mischievous carol was to show the extreme manner of its revision--as food for thought. If you imagine our devotional language as being on a set of scales, historically they have been tipped heavily toward masculine imagery. So I wonder if the scales could be tipped less heavily, while still preserving the intimacy. Never, ever should we eliminate "Father" from our vocabulary. But why not take increasing opportunities to address God neutrally as "Creator," "Redeemer," "Sustainer?" And why shy away from acknowledging God's maternal qualities? Neither legalism nor political correctness is called for, just some movement of the scale. In doing so, we will be in creative turmoil, which I suppose is preferable to the ennui in many of our McChurches.
Kirk
P.S. Carmen, I'm going to save your posting--those are some very interesting thoughts to ponder!
:::posted by R. Kirk on 12/06/2002 03:43:47 AM
Careful Wiley or I'll figure out a way to tie the red heifer into this discussion ... (Don't worry, just smiling!)
:::posted by Carmen on 12/06/2002 02:19:40 AM
Lance, I have to say this---you don't know what you're asking for if you want the long version! (said with a great big smile, Carmen!!! :>) ) Wiley
:::posted by Wiley on 12/05/2002 08:42:21 PM
Lance, (with a smile) do you mean that you'd like to see the long version?
:::posted by Carmen on 12/05/2002 06:57:55 PM
I must admit that seeing Katie preach Advent sermons 8+ months pregnant made me aware of the role of the feminine in the incarnation in a new way. That said, can I just ask (with a smile): "Where do you get this stuff, Carmen?"
:::posted by Lance on 12/05/2002 06:27:29 PM
The mystery of the incarnation is both male and female when we acknowledge that Jesus (and his maleness) was formed in the womb of Woman. If the messiah had been female the mystery of "male and female" would not come full circle since all life passes through the womb. A catholic friend of mine feels that protestant services, regardless of the level of gender justice, feel imbalanced. She attributes this to the protestant refusal to acknowledge Mary. Even though I do not agree with the catholic theology of Mary, I see her point. If our seperate churches were in one big room, the catholic room would have Mary elevated in the center -- serenely floating overhead. All eyes would be cast up to her glory. Those not looking heavenward would whack their heads on her feet as they attempt to move about. In the protestant room Mary is also in the center, but she is on the floor and covered by a tarp signed with the warning "Hands off! Do not Uncover!" All would pretend not to notice her. Those who ask would be gently chastened for having an interest and told that she is just a necessary obstacle, step around her and pretend she does not exist like everyone else is doing. Both the catholic and protestant responses to Mary are designed for avoidance of the feminine witness in the incarnation -- not just the testimony of Mary, but of womankind. The catholics avoid the work of the feminine in the incarnation by focusing in too tightly on the person of Mary. The protestants avoid the work of the feminine in the incarnation of Jesus by focusing on the child in the manger over the child in the womb. In all of this elaborate avoidance, Jesus himself and his egalitarian message is misunderstood. The birthcry of the firstborn Son of Mary was his first sermon on gender-justice.
:::posted by Carmen on 12/05/2002 04:19:20 PM
Kirk,
I’m not an opponent of inclusive language, but I must confess some dismay at the third stanza of “Hark.” How are we to stay in touch with the human pole of the paradox with neutered talk about a Christchild?
I have no trouble with the possibility that in some other context (ours for example) the Word might very well have come to us as a woman. It is not the masculinity of Jesus that saves us after all. And yet this is the kerygma we have received and no other: That in or about 4 B.C.E., God came near to reconcile God’s creation to God’s self through the male person of Jesus of Nazareth.
To quote a line from the (all female) band that once played the Yale Divinity School quad: “You don’t have to pee like Jesus to be like Jesus.” Point taken. But that is no justification for tampering with or otherwise obscuring the facts as the song itself acknowledges.
Language about the Christ that obscures his gender will always and necessarily move us along the continuum toward Docetism—a kind of over-enlightened embarrassment about the fleshliness of the incarnation. If God came near could he possibly have genitalia? So we confess. Did he go through puberty? So we confess. Did the girls laugh when his voice squeaked? And on and on right up to the part where he bled and suffocated to death. Scandalous. A stumbling block to Jews, folly to Gentiles, and bad PR to enlightened moderns, but there it is.
There is, in my view, very little to be gained and quite a bit to be lost in attempts to render Jesus genderless. Just my $.02.
Peace,
L
:::posted by Lance on 12/05/2002 03:34:57 PM
Thank you for praying for my son. Yes things are bad but -- most of the time -- there is a peace that lies in the heart of this darkness. Your prayers bring that peace into stronger focus. Thank you. Please pray that Chris won't be afraid. Our best friends went through this for a few months too and their child was diagnosed only this week with leukemia. Between Christopher's appointments at the same hospital, we have been visiting their daughter this week. The idea that he might have to go through chemotherapy is very scary. But at least he is talking about it. Yes Vicki, he is fourteen. He is healthy and active and growing -- no reason to believe that he is sick if it were not for the chronic cervical lymphadenopathy for about a year now.
Kirk, our family is planning to visit the Torrey Pines Christian Church soon. I've been there many times for my son's choir rehearsals. The facility is beautiful and the people we have met there are very friendly. Thank you for your research and recommendation.
Katie, I like to think of Yahweh as father and the Spirit or Shekinah as mother. This makes sense to me on many levels. I was raised in a household by a very strong mother and father with unique but balanced powers. I appreciate and need the friction of both the masculine and feminine in my spiritual life. From a distance I can admire the assertive qualities and enjoy the awsome rewards of masculine strength, while the more earth-bound feminine provides me with the blessing of constant presence, sustainance, discovery and purification. Jesus, the firstborn Son of Mary, and the Second Adam merges the Yahweh/Shekinah or Father/Mother in divine union and balance. That is harmony for me -- or maybe it is just easier than trying to visualise an asexual God.
I once saw a biblical history play where the part of God was played by an esemble of actors. There was a box decorated on each side with symbols of earth, cosmos, atoms, eternity ... and when the time came for God to appear an actor stood on the box. God was a large angry black man brandishing a machine gun; a sobbing barefoot and pregnant housewife hanging diapers on a clothesline, anguishing over how, with her lover running around, she was going to keep house and home together; a mafia godfather giving careful instructions to a hit man; Julia Child gave clear instructions about sacrifice; a pathetic, nebbish lover (Jerry Lewis?) dressed in tuxedo offered roses, candy and promises; a juicy Marilyn Monroe ... well, you get the picture. The fast pace of the play created a friction between the masculine and feminine that blurred the line of gender to create a single personality who longs -- beyond logic and reason -- for union, understanding, love, trust, respect ... sound familiar?
:::posted by Carmen on 12/05/2002 03:30:05 AM
Inclusive Language
Katie, it's exciting to read about how you're consciously attending to inclusive language. Congratulations especially on your choice of the NRSV! I agree that we need to be aware of worshippers' sensibilities, and be cautious that the images we use mesh with the congregation's understanding of God. It is good when inclusiveness is the product of deliberate study.
I've attended some churches where the worship leader photocopied pages from a traditional hymnal and made revisions which were then reproduced in the bulletin. (I would not necessarily recommend this.) In other churches, the song leader might suggest alternative wording for a certain phrase. All of these efforts demonstrate--especially to visitors--that the church takes inclusiveness seriously.
Vicki, in the sprit of Advent, I thought I'd share an excerpt from "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing" (The New Century Hymnal, No. 144). Comparing back to the original text, Stanza 3 is altered considerably for inclusiveness:
Hail the Bearer of God's peace! Hail the Sun of righteousness,
Light and life our Savior brings, risen with radiant, healing wings.
Mildly laying glory by, born that we no more may die,
Born to raise us all from earth, born to give us second birth.
Hark! the herald angels sing, "Glory to the Christchild bring!"
While the new hymnal has been mainly well received in our congregation, the only controversy I've heard has been with respect to the carols. There are some--particularly older members--who are dead-set on the original text. This is completely understandable. So ironically, last Christmas Eve, the minister invited the congregation to either sing the inclusive wording printed in the hymnal or the original wording, whichever was most comfortable.
Oh, Katie . . . I checked "Joyful, Joyful" (No.4) to see what was done with the last stanza. The phrase you cited was altered to, "Boundless love is reigning o'er us, reconciling race and clan." I suppose in this case there may have been a loosening of the original meaning, though personally I don't have a problem with it.
One final bit of trivia related to our Restoration Movement . . . I have a dusty copy of "Christian Worship: A Hymnal" (1953), the old classic used in thousands of Disciples congregations. Surprisingly, half a century ago, female imagery was being sung in "Motherhood, Sublime, Eternal" (No.604). I learned this hymn one Mother's Day at a service in Chicago. Lyrics available upon request.
Kirk
:::posted by R. Kirk on 12/05/2002 01:02:37 AM
Carmen -- your son is in our constant prayers. Please let us know how it's going. Your family's stress levels must be through the roof. God is good. Hang in there.
About inclusive language -- I've found it more helpful, for the time being, to focus on inclusive language for human beings. We've recently gotten new pew Bibles in the New Revised Standard Version, so we read "If anyone would follow me, they must take up their cross and follow me" instead of "If any man..."
I'm very intentional about saying "siblinghood" or "brothers and sisters" (or, more often, "sisters and brothers"). I use tons of feminine pronouns in teaching and preaching examples. Our church directory lists couples alphabetically, so "Don and Sue", but "Betsy and Jason."
When scripture projects a feminine metaphor for God, I pounce on it -- Jesus speaking to Jerusalem as if he is a hen longing to gather her chicks under her wings, for example. But using feminine pronouns for God is such a jolt, and I find it hard to do. I guess we all choose our battles, don't we?
In hymns, like Carmen, I often replace masculine pronouns with feminine, but mostly only when they refer to human beings. I haven't figured out a workable substitution for "brother love binds man to man" in "Joyful, Joyful, We Adore Thee," which is a bummer, because it's such a great song.
peace -- Katie
:::posted by Katie on 12/04/2002 04:42:18 PM
Hello to all! I've missed you!
CARMEN - I am in prayer for you and your son. Is he not the same age as mine? 14-15?
KIRK - God as Mother? Surely, you jest! : ) BTW, I loved "Good Christian friends, rejoice". Do you have any more to share with us?
God is SO, SO good!
- Vicki
:::posted by Vicki on 12/04/2002 11:24:01 AM
Hello All,
I've been busy. Our son seems to be sick. In the last few months he's had two MRI's, two surgical bipopsis, a bone marrow biopsy and about a dozen blood tests all with negative results. He has the best doctors, but they can't figure out what -- if anything -- is wrong with him. Only a couple of weeks ago they decided he does not have lymphoma, now they are thinking it might be a case of premature Hodgkins disease or an autoimmune disease ... or maybe -- hopefully -- just a bad case of puberty.
Kirk, I solve the problem of masculine stilted language to describe God by singing "she" instead of "he" and "mother" instead of "father" wherever and whenever I feel I need that -- at home and at church. I have never been questioned or reprimanded for this. I think it is generally accepted that formal changes need to be made, but most of the songs we sing at church tend not to describe God in terms of gender.
At a women's retreat I arranged a choral reading of Psalms 131. The background music had a black woman singing and humming "Hush Little Baby" in a low alto with the sound of a rocking chair on a creaky wood porch.
I think the problem of casting God as male or female can be solved with a strong choral speaking group. Choral speaking can be integrated into the most conservative church without too much anxiety and discussions about change and women's roles. I don't know why more churches looking for calm transitions into gender-equity don't adopt it.
:::posted by Carmen on 12/03/2002 05:57:43 PM
Inclusive Language
Can any of you share how the pursuit of gender justice has affected your congregations liturgically? To what extent do you believe inclusive language is important?
While many scriptural metaphors for God are masculine, the Bible sometimes portrays feminine or maternal characteristics of the divine. Perhaps these characteristics can be reclaimed with the understanding that God's essence is Spirit and that any attempt to anthropomorphize the transcendent will always be insufficient. God is not defined or limited by our choice of words; rather, our words attempt to convey different aspects of God's nature, one idea at a time. Giving attention to all "colors of the spectrum" can revitalize our language both from the pulpit and in the pews.
My congregation recently adopted The New Century Hymnal, published by the Pilgrim Press. This book received national news coverage, both favorable and critical, when it debuted a few years ago. Essentially it seeks to ensure that the language of our hymns, prayers, and affirmations of faith reflect a gender-neutral concept of the divine, while acknowledging and honoring the presence of both sexes in the worshipping community. Secondarily, the hymnal broadens our expressions by assembling poetry and music from several cultural traditions, while also modernizing archaic English usage in the great hymns of the past. Each of these objectives has the potential to ruffle feathers, but by adopting this hymnal, our church was willing to take that risk for the greater opportunity to testify that our words do matter. (For further information, visit http://www.ucpress.com/books/book-1050-1.html.)
In our worship life, many "old favorites" can easily be updated. Although as childhood carolers we may have learned, "Good Christian men, rejoice," today those words call attention to themselves, obscuring the message. So instead we sing, "Good Christian friends, rejoice" (No. 129).
Recently written hymns offer new and compelling images. I especially like Brian Wren's "Bring Many Names" (No.11)*:
Bring many names, beautiful and good,
Celebrate, in parable and story, holiness in glory, living, loving God.
Hail and Hosanna! Bring many names!
Strong mother God, working night and day,
Planning all the wonders of creation, setting each equation, genius at play:
Hail and Hosanna, strong mother God!
Warm father God, hugging every child,
Feeling all the strains of human living, caring and fogiving till we're reconciled:
Hail and Hosanna, warm father God!
Old, aching God, grey with endless care,
Calmly piercing evil's new disguises, glad of good surprises, wiser than despair:
Hail and Hosanna, old aching God!
Young, growing God, eager, on the move,
Saying no to falsehood and unkindness, crying out for justice, giving all you have:
Hail and Hosanna, young, growing God!
Great, living God, never fully known,
Joyful darkness far beyond our seeing, closer yet than breathing, everlasting home:
Hail and Hosanna, great, living God!
*Copyright 1989 by Hope Publishing Co., Carol Stream, IL 60188.
Would anyone else like to comment on what your congregation is doing in this area?
Kirk
:::posted by R. Kirk on 12/03/2002 01:42:35 AM
I'm afraid that I'll get an echo back if I say anything . . . it's SO quiet. I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving. I should have posted this before Thanksgiving, the more I read it the more I like it.
Shelly
A THANKSGIVING PRAYER
(Copied from The Book of Common Prayer)
Accept, O Lord, our thanks and praise for all that you have done for us. We thank you for the splendor of the whole creation, for the beauty of this world, for the wonder of life, and for the mystery of love.
We thank you for the blessing of family and friends, and for the loving care which surrounds us on every side.
We thank you for setting us at tasks which demand our best efforts, and for leading us to accomplishments which satisfy and delight us.
We thank you also for those disappointments and failures that lead us to acknowledge our dependence on you alone.
Above all, we thank you for your Son Jesus Christ; for the truth of his Word and the example of his life; for his steadfast obedience, by which he overcame temptation; for his dying, through which he overcame death; and for his rising to life again, in which we are raised to the life of your kingdom.
Grant us the gift of your Spirit, that we may know him and make him known; and through him, at all times and in all places, may give thanks to you in all things.
Amen.
:::posted by Shelly on 12/02/2002 05:07:40 PM
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